Woodruff - question about engine

[Smiling Spectre]

Recently I start Woodruff. It's all ok, except one painful question - subtitles.
I _can_ understand English on listening (actually, I am already finished almost all game without spoilers - up to complete council). But I cannot understand _all_ of it.
So I see the same situation as Feeble Files: there is subtitles in the files (in that case it is here for 7 languages or so), but it cannot be activated with any known way!
I think, there is peoples, who works with Goblins 3. Woodruff, as it seems, have the same structure - up to file naming. Can you say, if subtitles can be activated/deactivated in G3, and, more important, how it can be done?

[DrMcCoy]

I think, there is peoples, who works with Goblins 3. Woodruff, as it seems, have the same structure - up to file naming. Can you say, if subtitles can be activated/deactivated in G3, and, more important, how it can be done?

AFAIK, in Goblins 3, the subtitles are always shown when available. So if no subtitles are shown, I'm afraid there are none, simple as that.

[Smiling Spectre]

AFAIK, in Goblins 3, the subtitles are always shown when available. So if no subtitles are shown, I'm afraid there are none, simple as that.

Maybe I am speak too unclear. I'll try again.

There is subtitled speech in Goblins 3. For example, when Blount try to take screw, he says "It's a hook for the ropes. A screw is holding it." But if I start "floppy" version, I receive this text and no voice. If I start "CD" version, I receive only voice - no text is visible. But text is still here! (I just now copy this text into reply from CD-version ) It seems, all scripts (and text) is in intro.stk - if I try to replace it with other, game starts behave as different version. I don't know now, is this text is visible in CD-version of G3 anytime or not, but I think, it can be enabled, because it exist. Can it?

[PsYcO]

wait, i thought woodruff wasn't working under scummvm yet?

[DrMcCoy]

It seems, all scripts (and text) is in intro.stk - if I try to replace it with other, game starts behave as different version.

To an extend, yes. Depending on which version you have, the resources can reside in other files (disk01.stk-disk05.stk, for example), though.

I don't know now, is this text is visible in CD-version of G3 anytime or not, but I think, it can be enabled, because it exist. Can it?

Hmm, looking again into the intro.stk of the CD versions, it seems like the actual texts are there alright, the scripts just don't trigger the command to actually display them.
To get the subtitles, you'd have to modify the scripts then, which is a major undertaking, and quite impractical (Nailing-a-gelatinous-cube-to-a-wall-impractical). So in short, no.

wait, i thought woodruff wasn't working under scummvm yet?

It isn't, he must be talking about playing Woodruff without ScummVM.

[Smiling Spectre]

To get the subtitles, you'd have to modify the scripts then, which is a major undertaking, and quite impractical (Nailing-a-gelatinous-cube-to-a-wall-impractical). So in short, no.

Hmmm.
1. So there _isn't_ way to trigger subtitles? Why I ask: I can play only with visible text, without real understanding, as .stk work, so I can only guess, what is possible and what is not. You are have deeper knowledge, so you could check, maybe there is simple way to activate trigger. Something about start program with weird keys as -txt or pressing hard-to-find key combinations as ctrl+alt+home or pressing menu with right mouse button when holding shift... No? It's a pity then. Because yes, I cannot modify scripts.
2. But _you_ can modify scripts, yes? Is it possible to activate subtitles from ScummVM, just as it was with the same old Feeble Files - or it is too hard/complicated/big work to do?

[clem]

1. So there _isn't_ way to trigger subtitles? Why I ask: I can play only with visible text, without real understanding, as .stk work, so I can only guess, what is possible and what is not. You are have deeper knowledge, so you could check, maybe there is simple way to activate trigger. Something about start program with weird keys as -txt or pressing hard-to-find key combinations as ctrl+alt+home or pressing menu with right mouse button when holding shift... No? It's a pity then. Because yes, I cannot modify scripts.

2. But _you_ can modify scripts, yes? Is it possible to activate subtitles from ScummVM, just as it was with the same old Feeble Files - or it is too hard/complicated/big work to do?

let me try an anology: you put DOOM datafiles in the ScummVM directory, but ScummVM will not play it. Why? Because there is no program code to know what to do with the DOOM files, and no key-combination or mouse action will change that.

to say again in other words what DrMcCoy said above: to add subtitles you would need to take the files apart and insert instructions where to display which subtitle. This is a lot of work, and I think the time could be spent better.

[Smiling Spectre]

to say again in other words what DrMcCoy said above: to add subtitles you would need to take the files apart and insert instructions where to display which subtitle. This is a lot of work, and I think the time could be spent better.

Of course, I understand all of that. And of course I don't expect, that you, DrMcCoy or anyone else will rewrite whole code just for me. But I also trust in people's sanity. There _is_ whole lot of text in the Goblins 3. On the several languages. Why? Ok, in that particular case it may be possible leftover after remake floppy version in CD. (I don't think so, but it teoreticaly possible). But there is Woodruff with the exactly the same file structure and exactly the similar 9Mb of never-appearing multi-language text! And there is _no_ such thing as "Floppy Woodruff".
So I assume, there _is_ some purpose for this. I don't know, whether it "Easter egg", debug mode or late productional change. But I think, there is _maybe_ exist simple way to toggle subtitles on, _if_ program itself allow this, even if it's impossible for common ways. That's all. So I try to receive clear answer, based on current knowledge, and not on prerliminary suggestions - is such way exist, or not. If it's not - that's pity, but I can live with it. But if it is yes?
Of course, I have no idea, how hard it is to aquire such knowledge - it may be wave of hand, or it may be several hours of dig in pure machine code. If it's latter - of course, I cannot ask to do it for me and I am sorry, if my words suggest it.
But I think, Doom is not suited example in that aspect, sorry.

[DrMcCoy]

1. So there _isn't_ way to trigger subtitles?

Yes.

without real understanding, as .stk work

A STK is just a container/archive file, bundling many files (scripts, images, etc.) into one.

so I can only guess, what is possible and what is not. You are have deeper knowledge, so you could check, maybe there is simple way to activate trigger.

I've checked, there isn't.

2. But _you_ can modify scripts, yes? Is it possible to activate subtitles from ScummVM, just as it was with the same old Feeble Files - or it is too hard/complicated/big work to do?

I think my nailing-a-gelatinous-cube-on-the-wall-analogy was fitting: It's certainly _possible_, but hard (and you might get eaten while trying ).

Ok, in that particular case it may be possible leftover after remake floppy version in CD. (I don't think so, but it teoreticaly possible).

I for one think so. Leftover is the most likely explanation (and not unheard of, either. Take the screen with the crudely drawn monkey you can find in Monkey Island 3's resource files, for example.)

But there is Woodruff with the exactly the same file structure and exactly the similar 9Mb of never-appearing multi-language text!

I think it's, as you said, "late productional change".

But I think, there is _maybe_ exist simple way to toggle subtitles on, _if_ program itself allow this, even if it's impossible for common ways.

Looking at the script parser's debug output while running Gob3 in ScummVM, I can't see a way how. There is no test for some unknown "secret" key or something in the scripts.

or it may be several hours of dig in pure machine code

Several hours alone to just locate all the scripts that need to be changed. Since they exist in bytecode only form in the resource files and we don't have the original high level interpretation, you can't that easily change them either (the jump addresses won't be correct anymore). I'd have to write a "disassembler" of some sort, understand what the scripts do there, change them and reassemble them. All in all, a lot of work.


So, to answer your initial question in short: No.

[Smiling Spectre]

1. So there _isn't_ way to trigger subtitles?

Yes.

Thank you, this is the answer, that I want. With explanations below, of course.

But I think, there is _maybe_ exist simple way to toggle subtitles on

Looking at the script parser's debug output while running Gob3 in ScummVM, I can't see a way how. There is no test for some unknown "secret" key or something in the scripts.

And this is explanation. Thank you again! It's pity, but it is.

or it may be several hours of dig in pure machine code

Several hours alone to just locate all the scripts that need to be changed.

Sorry for boredom (I am very boring person). I simply want to clear my point of view. I never thinked about anything such complicated as changing every script. I thinked about simple trigger, such as existing "music/no music", and changing this could enabling/disabling subtitles everywhere. Obviously, it must be, if they'd plan to use this text somehow! But, of course, if it wasn't implemented yet, when change happens - and as you say, there is no such trigger - than it's only bad luck for me. Thank you again for your extensive answers!

Just another blind try:
There is something, that seems as options for me: in the intro.stk there is lines >HELP, NO HELP and TEXT just between >MUSIC and INFO (i.e., it seems for me as options in "options" menu". Is this can be activated somehow?
There is also key "DEBUG" in main executable gob3.exe (i.e. I can start gob3.exe DEBUG). Is this do something? Maybe it's connected with previous question?

I understand, that maybe it's hard to answer, and that one fool can ask more questions than 100 wise man can answer... But maybe? If answer for _that_ questions too hard - it's bad luck again.