BASS: remake of the musical score

edweird · Post by **edweird** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:13 pm

I'd previously posted in the Audio restoration thread. This is where I'll post updates about my progress, and mp3s for you all to critique and hopefully enjoy. I don't have anything to show RIGHT now (though there is a quickly thrown together sample in the other thread) since there have been a few power problems due to all the storms here at the moment.. but stay tuned! I just wanted to post something now so it doesn't seem like I've disappeared

kaysow · Post by **kaysow** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:34 pm

i'd have no problem giving these a makeover in Propellerhead's Reason. i don't have it around here, though, so i'll give 'em a shot in a couple of days. won't hurt to have some choice, will it? =) i just like playing around with music.

kaysow · Post by **kaysow** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:40 pm

one down

http://s36.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=15EA ... 9LYVCNI23U

it's the main theme. mind you, i haven't actually played this game. never got around to it in the nineties, and it's pretty crappy looking (and sounding) today. the music's pretty nice, though, so i reworked one of those midis that were posted in the other thread. this is file 0-1, reorchestrated in Reason 3.0. basically the same song, but with some added harmony, and timpani.

brkl · Post by **brkl** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:09 pm

Sounds great

VooD · Post by **VooD** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:24 am

Sounds...no comments...

I know I´m gonna win some enemies but well here is my opinion:

- Reason is the worst daw application ever for making orchestral music
- Reason orchestral library is a joke
- If you want to do something serious, please get Logic or Cubase, and then a good quality orchestral library, ie: Vienna Symphonic Library...even Garritan Personal Orchestra plugin will sound better than reason
- I think you used the original midi data and just adapted the sounds for reason...well, the original midi data was made for being heard on a GM module or adlib...so is no way complete as orchestal score, there lot of part missing: double layers, extra instruments, bigger chords, expression, dynamics, etc...
- Reverb is a absolute need for orchestra, even more, REAL reverb is a need, so you should use a convolution reverb.
- In order to get a nice orchestra sound you need correct panoramization in addition to depth position of the virtual orchestra and reverb...

Well...to sum up, good try...but it doesn´t sound much further than the original, I hope it wont be in the final version.

E-Male · Post by **E-Male** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:49 am

reason isn't the holy grail (for orchestral stuff)
but if you don't just think of the result but also of the person doing the music it's a really cool app

throwing in a lot of criticism without posting something better is always a bit of... let's say cheap
i mean, it would of course be best to get a real orchestry and a studio to do everything, but it's not likely to happen i fear

so just let everyone do their versions if they like, and pick your favourite if you like

but don't say "your version sucks, you MUST do this and this like this and that"

i'm sure you didn't mean it badly, but i had to get this of me mind right now

kaysow · Post by **kaysow** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:01 pm

no prob. that one was made in a couple of hours, mainly just implementing a new program for the midi. i never did anything like it before, and i really should've remembered the reverb. at least it's something to listen to =)

Post by **eriktorbjorn** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:57 pm

kaysow wrote:no prob. that one was made in a couple of hours, mainly just implementing a new program for the midi. i never did anything like it before, and i really should've remembered the reverb. at least it's something to listen to =)

To me, the only "problem" with it is that it sound so close to the original MIDI music, played on a better-than-my-soundcard synth. This in itself is, of course, an improvement over the original, but what I liked about the first sample music that was posted was that it was different from the original, while remaining noticeably the same.

My favorite example of this latter approach is what the Precursors project did to the original QuasiSpace music from Star Control 2. Of course, I'm not saying that the changes have to be that drastic, even if it might be nice in some cases.

E-Male · Post by **E-Male** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:52 pm

i gues it would bd great (for any game soundtrack tuning project) to have the choice between different works, some more close some more freely interpreted
i know this rarely happens, because you don't often find many people doing their versions

an additional note:
of course a version that really is 1:1 the same file just played with better samples (with no effects and no human tweaking) and even uses the same samples all the time can also be achieved by creating a soundfont for the game and just use midi
but i think no-one here will do a that simple production

edweird · Post by **edweird** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:23 am

Hey guys, sorry I've been inactive for a while, my PC completely died on me so I've spent the last week putting together and setting up an entirely new system.

About your track kaysow, I'm all for more people contributing to this so by all means go nuts if you want

I do think the one you posted still sounds very 'midi' though.

Reason isn't actually as bad as you might think for orchestral music. I used reason to do the bass1.mp3 I posted in the other thread.. it's all about spending time processing and combining sounds, and using good amounts of eq\reverb\compression to create naturalistic sounds. I do also use cubase with some synths and sample libraries but lately I've been managing to equal and surpass my previous orchestral sounds with reason 3.

I think just importing midis and assigning sounds will never have very impressive results.. what's needed (and what I'll be doing) is using the existing files as a guide, and re-arranging the track to suit the available sounds.. basically re-working it from the ground up. That's been my intention from the start, to completely re-make the score so that it sounds like something that a game might come out with today.

Before my old computer crashed, I was working on the linc-space track, and I've replaced a lot of parts with recordings of actual vocals. It still needs a lot of work but should sound cool. I haven't lost anything (had it all backed up) so I'll be back on track soon.

A few ideas I wouldn't mind comments on - some of the tracks are musically VERY corny.. such as (I think) belle vue, piermont's theme, and the jukebox tracks (I don't have them right here to listen to so I may have gotten them mixed up). I'm thinking for the belle vue music, I might make it sound like it's coming out of crappy speakers (like in a shopping centre kind of thing) and make it more of a soundscape, with subtle audible wind etc, to keep the sort of foreboding atmosphere of the game despite the cheery track. What does everyone think of that? I'd probably do the same for mrs piermont's theme (like it's playing on her stereo).

The jukebox\club music, I was considering various possibilities of modernising the music musically, but I'm not sure.. perhaps I should remain faithful to the original. Those tracks are pretty tacky

so I'm not entirely sure what I should do there. I could very easily do something jazzy that has a more appropriate mood to it, but that would be deviating from the original, so any comments on what you guys think I should do would be appreciated. If I'm undecided by the time I get to those tracks I'd probably start with something that deviates from the original and is moodier, and get comments from people, possibly going back to a more faithful remake if there was a backlash

JamesWoodcock · Post by **JamesWoodcock** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:21 pm

The MIDI sounds fine, I think maybe the playback device is the main concern here. I always use a Yamaha Tyros keyboard workstation so maybe you could send me your MIDI and I will see if I can get a good recording from it.

JamesWoodcock · Post by **JamesWoodcock** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:06 pm

Did this within 20 minutes so still fairly early days, but you get the idea....
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/james.wood ... ntroJW.mp3

edweird · Post by **edweird** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:44 pm

Whether or not the midi sounds fine depends on how fussy you want to be I guess

It still sounds very midi to my ears, and the idea with this project for me was always to avoid the midi sound entirely. I'll make that intro track the next thing I work on so we can compare. I'm aiming for a clearer and more realistic sound than has been posted so far so I'd say it'll be a fair bit of work, but you'll see what I mean when I post the results. (I don't want to come off as arrogant or chuffed with my own ability or anything when I say that... I'm just very fussy as far as music goes and I figure there's not much point in re-making these tracks if they're not going to turn out a million times better than the original). Re-working the tracks will always result in far better results than just assigning new sounds to the existing midi. There's not a great deal of point in doing it if that's all we were going to do, since (as has been said) you could just set up some soundfonts and get the same results.

Don't let that stop anyone having a go though, the process doesn't really matter if you manage to get realistic results.

JamesWoodcock · Post by **JamesWoodcock** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:22 pm

Have you got anything to show us?

edweird · Post by **edweird** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:32 pm

No, not really.. as I said my computer finally died on me so I've spent a while setting up a new one. I will get back on track with this stuff soon though, I'm working for the next couple of days but after that I have a fair amount of free time.

If you haven't heard it already, though this is the mp3 I posted in the other thread:
http://www.logic.turntablism.info/mp3/bass1.mp3

It was basically a very quick re-make of one of the game's tracks I threw together, to give people a rough idea of the sounds I'm using. Obviously this still suffers from the midi-sounding problem (the melodic line particularly) which is why I intend to eventually replace most melodic lines with live instruments (such as violin or vocals) so I do expect the quality to be good, it'll just take time that's all. If you have any feedback or suggestions by all means.

I'll upload more progress as it happens, hopefully I'll have another finished track or two by the end of the week.