Idea: ScummVM+

JohnnyWalker2001 · Post by **JohnnyWalker2001** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:00 pm

I think this won't happen any time soon (if at all) but I just thought it would be cool, if one day in the distant future, ScummVM+ was created... that "enhanced" existing games by fixing things in them.

For example, there's quite a few times in Curse of Monkey Island when a character is supposed to be interrupting Guybrush as he speaks... but, I guess to due technical limitations of the time, Guybrush will suddenly stop mid-sentence, you'll wonder why, and then the character speaks... supposedly stepping on Guybrush's lines.

It'd be cool if the sound could be edited in some way so that this sort of humour actually works, instead of "kind of working".

Also, the scrolling is very jerky. It would be nice if it could be smoothed out.

I know some people might not like the idea of "improved" games, but that's why there's ScummVM!

I'm sure there's other games that could do with "improvements", too.

Anyways, I doubt this will ever happen, it's just a thought I had.

timofonic · Post by **timofonic** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:40 pm

I suggest you to learn what ScummVM is.

ScummVM is not an unofficial game enhacement project, but an interpreter for playing those games on a wide variety of platforms.

Of course the ScummVM Team is so great that they fix bugs that are on original interpreters, but that's not the main purpose of this project.

I don't understand why a ScummVM+ version is needed, those improvements can be added to the project if not involves the modification of the original data.

I don't know if all the features you mention can be added as options, maybe the scrolling thing can be a limitation to available frames to animation. Maybe another guy or a ScummVM developer can clear your thinking about what this project is, I suggest you to read the FAQ.

BigT · Post by **BigT** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:42 am

Well, to some extent, it already does enhance the games:
2xsai and other graphics filters.
Extensive midi playback options.
Ability to use better versions of games (FM Towns version of Zak Mckracken without owning an FM Towns machine).

Scrolling would be improved by supporting vsync; this will hopefully get done sometime in the near future.

JohnnyWalker2001 · Post by **JohnnyWalker2001** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:03 am

The Madventurer wrote:I suggest you to learn what ScummVM is.

Maybe another guy or a ScummVM developer can clear your thinking about what this project is, I suggest you to read the FAQ.

Please don't patronizingly suggest that I "read the FAQ" while you can't even be bothered to read the post you're replying to. Just so you know, I have followed and used ScummVM since day one. I am *completely* aware what it is about!

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT SCUMMVM IN MY POST - I'M TALKING ABOUT A COMPLETELY FICTIONAL PIECE OF SOFTWARE CALLED SCUMMVM+.

MAME, for example, has many "off shoot" projects where other developers add or remove features that are not inline with the actual aims of MAME itself. It's one of the good things about open source development. Ever use MAME32? That's an unofficial off-shoot from the command-line based MAME. Did you know that?

I make it explicitly clear that I think this project is highly unlikely, that it does not share the goals of ScummVM and that it is nothing more than a fan-boi dream!

TRY *READING* WHAT YOU'RE REPLYING TO!

md5 · Post by **md5** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:35 pm

A lot of bugs found in the original games themselves have already been fixed under ScummVM, so this is already happening, there is no point in creating a separate project for this. A few bugs that are found in the original games themselves which I can remember right now are:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.ph ... tid=418822
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.ph ... tid=418820
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.ph ... tid=418820
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.ph ... tid=418820
I remember that some issues which existed in the original BS2 have been fixed, too (e.g. a bug in the pyramid, where you have to pick up the torch before using the elevator)
... and I guess there are more, too, which I can't remember right now

Can you be a little more specific on the characters that should be interrupting Guybrush in COMI? Where does this happen? This is not a sound problem per se, sounds can be stopped by the engine (ScummVM) itself (i.e. by bypassing dialogs with the "." key).

As for the scrolling in COMI, I don't find it to be jerky. Again, can you be a little more specific? What is your operating system (Windows, Linux, MacOS, ...) and your PC's hardware specs? Does this jerky scrolling happen in all parts of the game, or are there specific places where it's happening?

clem · Post by **clem** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:17 pm

JohnnyWalker2001 wrote: I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT SCUMMVM IN MY POST - I'M TALKING ABOUT A COMPLETELY FICTIONAL PIECE OF SOFTWARE CALLED SCUMMVM+.

wrong forum, then *snicker*

MrPunchy · Post by **MrPunchy** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:23 pm

Is a great idea!!

I wanna scummvm+ to skip ALL the copy protections!!

JohnnyWalker2001 · Post by **JohnnyWalker2001** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:08 pm

MD5 wrote:A lot of bugs found in the original games themselves have already been fixed under ScummVM

That's cool to hear, but I guess what I'm suggesting is possibly crossing over into "improvements" rather than fixes, as and such, I'd imagine some people would rather have the games as they originally were released (which is fair enough).

I've spent a bit of time trying to find out where the gaps in audio occurred on Plunder Island, but I can't seem to remember where they were

How annoying. I remember a conversation where Guybrush was interrupting someone (or maybe more likely, someone else was interrupting Guybrush), but I can't remember who it was with.

As for the scrolling, it's very noticeable on Plunder Island as it isn't "smooth" but rather moves in "chunks". It's the same for the rest of the game, but there's more "one screen" areas later on. I'm running a pretty hispec PC (Vista / WEI 5.3) so I seriously doubt it's anything to do with that (my computer itself never slows down).

Something else that I've been discussing in another thread would be the inclusion of the higher quality Amiga sound effects over the PC ones in some of the older Scumm games (like Monkey Island). This would definitely be something of a personal preference and not really a "fix".

I'm sure there's other things that could be done!

JohnnyWalker2001 · Post by **JohnnyWalker2001** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:34 pm

Ok, I found two small examples of the pause between lines that sound odd.

When you first arrive on Blood Island, talking to Madame Xima or Goodsoup (behind the bar) both results in Guybrush saying something like:

"Hi, I'm Guybrush Threepwood, I -"
and then the character interrupts him before he can continue, supposedly, with "Shhh!" or "Ahhh!" (depending on who it is).

But what happens is, Guybrush says his line, pauses for a second for no reason, and then the character he's talking to "stops" him from speaking.

There's other (worse) examples within the game, but these are just two I happened to find. There's another one where it happens a lot during a whole conversation, and ruins a lot of the humour, but I can't remember who it's with.

Kirben · Post by **Kirben** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:19 am

JohnnyWalker2001 wrote: Something else that I've been discussing in another thread would be the inclusion of the higher quality Amiga sound effects over the PC ones in some of the older Scumm games (like Monkey Island). This would definitely be something of a personal preference and not really a "fix".

That would mean editing the actual data files, not ScummVM. And be illegal, unless people owned the twos versions been merged already.

Mixing the contents of data files will never be supported in ScummVM.

JohnnyWalker2001 wrote:Ok, I found two small examples of the pause between lines that sound odd.

There usually isn't a pause, between those characters under ScummVM, in those examples.

Sounds like you are using a custom subtitle speed setting, which will effect speech too.

JohnnyWalker2001 · Post by **JohnnyWalker2001** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:38 pm

Unless you've just tested it or previously looked into this, I don't see how you can say with confidence that there's no pause. It's a fairly minor pause in the examples I gave, but an unnatural one, none-the-less.

Also, I haven't altered the subtitle settings in *any* way. It's actually a new installation with default everything (pretty much).

md5 · Post by **md5** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:19 pm

Well, there's little that can be done as Kirben said, it's a bug in the original game's sound samples, which can't be altered in a legal way

JohnnyWalker2001 wrote: That's cool to hear, but I guess what I'm suggesting is possibly crossing over into "improvements" rather than fixes

The ScummVM menu itself in SCUMM games is an improvement (more save slots, save game screenshots, help screen and more)

I don't know about the slow scrolling really, I never noticed it myself. Does this happen with the original game as well?

JohnnyWalker2001 · Post by **JohnnyWalker2001** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:26 pm

md5 wrote:Well, there's little that can be done as Kirben said, it's a bug in the original game's sound samples, which can't be altered in a legal way

Actually Kirben was talking about something else unrelated the gaps in CMI's audio.

It's cool to see that ScummVM is more open to improving the game, though, rather than just emulating it 100% perfectly. MAME has gotten some strong criticism lately for doing almost fascistly the opposite.

Post by **sev** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:11 pm

JohnnyWalker2001 wrote:MAME has gotten some strong criticism lately for doing almost fascistly the opposite.

You're mixing orange and apples here. MAME is about perfect mimic of hardware, so perfect that the sources could be used to fixing the boards.

ScummVM is about gameplay. If you want a similar comparison, then this is Raine. Since Raine is for playing games, it allows differnt hacks, speed-ups and alterations.

Eugene
(a visiting member of MAMEDEV)

JohnnyWalker2001 · Post by **JohnnyWalker2001** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:10 pm

Sure, but that doesn't change what I've said... (I'm not complaining.)