SCI Games

[Collector]

Why quote me? We are not in disagreement. I was not arguing for a merger. I just said that while it would be nice, I see little point in pushing for it.

[rented mule]

I would certainly welcome a ScummVM/FreeSCI merger or faster, more portable development of FreeSCI, but it is becoming increasingly moot and the time and effort of the ScummVM team are probably better spent on other things.

I am sure that lots of people (me included) will definitely welcome such merge, but.

• Who will do the merge? FreeSCI devs are not up to it
• It will not help automagically SCI development. Basically same people will work on it, so no speedup
• Codebase is too different, so FreeSCI devs have to be convinced that the efforts on studying new codebase will bring them benefits

So, any points on those questions?


Eugene

Come on Eug...what a bunch of horseshit baloney you're feeding us...Sarien's codebase was so different than ScummVM's it made me vomit in disgust. The two game engines also have such different philosophies that it made me puke up into my earlier vomi, I almost choked to death. Have you guys 'objectified' the entire Sarien code yet?

You guys could slap the FreeSCI team around a little...if you guys truly are twiddling your thumbs trying to find what other obscure 1-game engine to add to ScummVM then perhaps spending some time to 'mingle' with the FreeSCI dev team would light a fire under their "Optimizing Pathfinding - The Ultimate Frontier" essay-writing, time-wasting activities and wake the team up to the reality that they haven't done a whole lot in the past 5 years. Perhaps you guys could write an essay "Codebases - Why you should make it match ours, it's the best" to convince them?

I hate the ScummVM dev attitude and I hate how they use the excuse that codebases don't match. Be a man and tell us the TRUTH.

I, btw, don't really care if there's a merger or not. I already find ScummVM to be bloated now. And the attitude...oh, god, the attitude of the ScummVM devs...it's the only thing that really irks me. Talking about differing codebases and how the philosophies of two engines are way too effin' different for a merger to be worthwhile...and then you guys turn around on this and slap Sarien right into ScummVM like nothing was ever said. "Oh, it's a piece of cake...we just have to change all the code so that it uses C++ objects...sooooo frickin' easy...my 2 year old can do it by slamming its head on the keyboard and rolling it around for 5 mintues. WHAT? FreeSCI? OH GOD NO! You'd need Chuck Norris programming skills for that."

Admit it! I've got you in a headlock...you're gonna have to admit it now.

[DrMcCoy]

[insults snipped]

That enough. There's absolutely no reason to be so vile and hateful.

I hate the ScummVM dev attitude and I hate how they use the excuse that codebases don't match.

Then go! We're not particularely fond of your hate-filled, dirt-flinging kind either.

I already find ScummVM to be bloated now.

It's FOSS. If you want to make a fork and clean-up ScummVM, you're totally free to do that.

Talking about differing codebases and how the philosophies of two engines are way too effin' different for a merger to be worthwhile...

You ignore that there still is nobody actually willing to merge the codebases.
Or is this whole rant a proposal that you want to do it?

and then you guys turn around on this and slap Sarien right into ScummVM like nothing was ever said. "Oh, it's a piece of cake...we just have to change all the code so that it uses C++ objects...sooooo frickin' easy...my 2 year old can do it by slamming its head on the keyboard and rolling it around for 5 mintues. WHAT? FreeSCI? OH GOD NO! You'd need Chuck Norris programming skills for that."

You assume that Sarien was added on a quick whim. That was not the case. And since you apparently know nothing about how it happened, I suggest you keep quiet before you embarrass yourself more.

---

As I said above, you're free to clean-up ScummVM's codebase and merge FreeSCI with ScummVM all you want.

If you're serious, initiate conversation with the FreeSCI devs and provide a clean patch and the willingness to (help) maintain the engine, I'm pretty sure it will find consensus among us.
If you're, like I suspect at the moment, only insults, words and hot air, then leave, we don't want you here.

[Collector]

...if you guys truly are twiddling your thumbs trying to find what other obscure 1-game engine to add to ScummVM then perhaps spending some time to 'mingle' with the FreeSCI dev

While, granted, my knowledge of SCI is not on the level of a developer, my understanding is that Sierra played fast and loose with the SCI engine, often modifying it on the fly to match whatever their current needs were. This is why you can rarely use the interpretor from one game in another, even when it is the same SCI version. The source for the interpretor was stored with the source for the game as it was often that unique. Adding SCI support to ScummVM would have to be done one game at a time.

I hate the ScummVM dev attitude and I hate how they use the excuse that codebases don't match. Be a man and tell us the TRUTH.

Talking about differing codebases and how the philosophies of two engines are way too effin' different for a merger to be worthwhile...

The difference means more work. Are you willing to do it?

and then you guys turn around on this and slap Sarien right into ScummVM like nothing was ever said. "Oh, it's a piece of cake...we just have to change all the code so that it uses C++ objects...sooooo frickin' easy...my 2 year old can do it by slamming its head on the keyboard and rolling it around for 5 mintues. WHAT? FreeSCI? OH GOD NO! You'd need Chuck Norris programming skills for that."

AGI is a much more simple engine. Any perceived "ease" of integration is meaningless to the degree of difficulty/amount of work that would be required to add SCI support, even with Free SCI. Besides, Free SCI is nowhere near as complete in its support of SCI as ScummVM is of Scumm.

On top of all that, the attitude is uncalled for. A little civility, please.

[md5]

It's so easy for people to start pointing fingers and keep flaming everyone. Insults rarely help in any way, though. I can also verify that the AGI engine was MUCH MUCH simpler than SCI. Sierra moved out of AGI (a much simpler and harder to extend engine) to SCI, and as mentioned, SCI has been adjusted for each game it was used in. SCI games started with EGA 16 colors (e.g. Larry 2) and moved on to VGA 256 colors and later on high-res SVGA graphics (and many many other enhancements, of course).

In any case, we can use any helping hand, so you can always read a book about C++, another about Assembly, start studying the SCI game executables in depth, understand how FreeSCI works, understand how ScummVM works, rewrite all of the parts in FreeSCI that need rewriting, create a new engine that can be used with ScummVM and keep maintaining the engine, fixing any bugs that appear and implementing all the features in the several versions of the SCI engine (FreeSCI is only focusing on SC0 and SC1 for now, and they're implementing SCI1.1 slowly afaik - of course, there are even more versions after that). All in all, a quite complex task, but if you're willing to do it, feel free to and stop insulting everyone.

[fingolfin]

Rented mule, your clever psychological trick post made me *so* want to finally work on a FreeSCI merge. Wow. Espescially how you repeatedly insulted all and everybody who would be the primary addresses to talk to regarding the merge (namely both the ScummVM and the FreeSCI team). Again: Wow. What a *brilliant* strategy.

Oh, hint: That was sarcasm.

Anyway: As it was pointed out here before, for a detailed discussion and a list of various (honest) reasons why we don't want to merge, once more, read this thread.

If you don't believe that, or still are unhappy with our "attitude" (a mutual feeling, BTW): Fine.

[rented mule]

Haha, I'm kidding...good work guys.

[md5]

Haha, I'm kidding...good work guys.

...you got some serious issues man. No, really, you do... What is "good work" supposed to mean in this context?

There are limits to what is considered "fun" and what isn't. Your post crossed those limits, I could hardly call it "funny". Unless you realized that you acted in a very childish way and are trying to cover up your mistake, but again that's not convincing anyone

[sev]

Come on Eug...what a bunch of horseshit baloney you're feeding us...Sarien's codebase was so different than ScummVM's it made me vomit in disgust. The two game engines also have such different philosophies that it made me puke up into my earlier vomi, I almost choked to death. Have you guys 'objectified' the entire Sarien code yet?

It is really amazing how you came to this after your words: Ohhh baby...I can't wait to play AGI games full screen with nice graphics options. I had been 'pestering' the Sarion devs to add HQ and Super2xSaI filters for a long time...I guess my dream will come ... on this board. You definitely developed well as a person in these 6 months.

Be a man and tell us the TRUTH.

Looks like you're possessing some sikrit knowledge, so go on, and share it with the world. So what is the TRUTH about FreeSCI merge?

Admit it! I've got you in a headlock...you're gonna have to admit it now.

Yes, I sincerely admit it. You did it! Oh yeah, baby! Take a donut.


Eugene

PS. And thanks again for a nice encouragement to even look in this merge stuff direction.

[rented mule]

Wow...seems like at least two people are still taking my post seriously. In a grossly exaggerated caricature, I've expressed the bi-annual FreeSCI posts that seem to crop on these forums.

I really love the ScummVM team's work. I guess next time I should use [sarcasm] and [lampoon] tags with a few smileys here and there...the effect wouldn't be the same though.

edit: Eug is at least taking it lightly. md5 looks offended beyond belief. I apologize for any grief caused.

[clone2727]

Eugene is taking it lightly? That would be completely wrong. I mean:

PS. And thanks again for a nice encouragement to even look in this merge stuff direction.

and then you guys turn around on this and slap Sarien right into ScummVM like nothing was ever said. "Oh, it's a piece of cake...we just have to change all the code so that it uses C++ objects...sooooo frickin' easy...my 2 year old can do it by slamming its head on the keyboard and rolling it around for 5 mintues. WHAT? FreeSCI? OH GOD NO! You'd need Chuck Norris programming skills for that."

But, this is truly an insult. Porting Sarien was not just using converting to C++ objects. That wasn't even completely done in the beginning! Converting everything to the ScummVM OSystem (ie. files, graphics, sound, etc.) was not easy. This truly insults all the devs who put major work into this, especially aquadran who did a lot of work on it.

Merging FreeSCI would not be an easy task! Besides, why does it have to happen?

I'm usually all for the sarcasm (sarcasm should be my middle name, for those who know me better) and don't ever post this angrily, but you have really have insulted and ticked off several developers, including myself.

[rented mule]

Eugene is taking it lightly? That would be completely wrong. I mean:

PS. And thanks again for a nice encouragement to even look in this merge stuff direction.

and then you guys turn around on this and slap Sarien right into ScummVM like nothing was ever said. "Oh, it's a piece of cake...we just have to change all the code so that it uses C++ objects...sooooo frickin' easy...my 2 year old can do it by slamming its head on the keyboard and rolling it around for 5 mintues. WHAT? FreeSCI? OH GOD NO! You'd need Chuck Norris programming skills for that."

But, this is truly an insult. Porting Sarien was not just using converting to C++ objects. That wasn't even completely done in the beginning! Converting everything to the ScummVM OSystem (ie. files, graphics, sound, etc.) was not easy. This truly insults all the devs who put major work into this, especially aquadran who did a lot of work on it.

Merging FreeSCI would not be an easy task! Besides, why does it have to happen?

I'm usually all for the sarcasm (sarcasm should be my middle name, for those who know me better) and don't ever post this angrily, but you have really have insulted and ticked off several developers, including myself.

I suppose the question you have to ask yourself is "did rented mule go crazy?" I was obviously ecstatic about the news about the Sarien codebase being added to ScummVM. And now I'm apparently disgusted by the move and saying that the two shouldn't belong together. Does that make any sense to you? I doesn't make sense to me.

[DrMcCoy]

Not making sense, being insulting and not being funny aren't mutually exclusive.

[clem]

I suppose the question you have to ask yourself is "did rented mule go crazy?" I was obviously ecstatic about the news about the Sarien codebase being added to ScummVM. And now I'm apparently disgusted by the move and saying that the two shouldn't belong together. Does that make any sense to you? I doesn't make sense to me.

Trolls rarely make sense.
Can't this discussion end already? I doubt you'll manage to convince anybody that this was really just sarcasm at this point.

[exofreeze]

Sarcasm my ass.

They should have outright banned you for your retarded sens eof humor.