Goblins - Music in CD and Disk versions.

[Morden]

I've been thinking about this for a while and I thought I'd just ask here. It's about the Goblins games and music in CD and disk versions.

I've got both disk and CD versions of the game and I couldn't help but notice that the CD versions do not play any other music than the one present on the disc.

Does this mean the CD versions don't include the music that's present in disk versions, or is there a way to make the game use non-CD music instead?

It's a CD after all. It's not like they couldn't fit everything in. The third game is only a few megabytes in disk version, so why not include some kind of choice between the CD tracks and normal music?

I've been thinking about it mostly because of how different both soundtracks are. Someone who only has the CD version is missing out, as the disk soundtrack is really good if not better, at times. This applies to Goblins 3, particularly. The original disk score is excellent and I'd choose it over the CD tracks any day.

So, did the developers include the disk music somewhere or is it completely replaced by other data? Is there a way of "converting" a CD version so that it plays the disk music? I tried swapping out some files one by one between versions, but it didn't really do anything except for making ScummVM close itself.

[DrMcCoy]

Nope, that's not really possible:
Firstly, the CD version really doesn't include the floppy version's AdLib music.
Secondly, and more severely, the request to play a music track, be it CD or AdLib, is requested by the game scripts. And the CD version requests specific CD tracks while the floppy version requests specific adlib files (some of them not even named files but loaded by index out of TOT script or EXT resource files).

That is to say, it would theoretically be possible, but would involve a huge task of finding a complete mapping (which might not exist, or might only work for one specific pair of different Goblins 3 releases), and therefore not feasable. Sorry.

[Telordya]

I think diskette and CD versions are completely different on the soundtrack. At that time, the CD was in the beginning and they decided to "remaster" games such as Goblins 3 with a "better" soundtrack. I don't think they let the "old" soundtrack on the CD version, speech or music. Maybe it's hidden somewhere in files but you'll maybe need to hex edit them to get the results. You use either the diskette with original MIDI music with "pitatibitoo pitayditoo" speech or the CD version with "improved" music and live speech. Personally, I don't like the CD version at all, I prefer the old diskette.

[Morden]

the CD version really doesn't include the floppy version's AdLib music.

That's what I suspected and was afraid of. Strange move on Coktel's part, since the AdLib music is superb. At least I think it is.

it would theoretically be possible, but would involve a huge task of finding a complete mapping

I was hoping there might be a simpler solution to this, but that was just wishful thinking, really. At least now I'm sure there's nothing that can be done about it.

Like Telordya, I like the disk versions better mainly because of the music and the "pitatibitoo pitayditoo" speech. The CD soundtrack sometimes doesn't play any music at all. It's just ambient sounds, birds singing, etc. - That's most noticable in Gobliins 2.

It's beyond me why would someone think this was somehow better than having all those kickass AdLib tunes. Thanks for your answers, guys.

[MusicallyInspired]

the CD version really doesn't include the floppy version's AdLib music.

That's what I suspected and was afraid of. Strange move on Coktel's part, since the AdLib music is superb. At least I think it is.

You forget it was the same way with The Secret of Monkey Island. They removed the Adlib song files from the game for the CD version.

I agree, though, the disk version had much better music. The CD versions of Gobliiins 1 and Gobliins 2 had the exact same soundtrack! If one game works the best with the CD release it would be Gobliiins 1, though, as the disk version isn't 256 colours and doesn't have a soundtrack.

[Morden]

I have another Goblins related question: Which file contains all the written dialogue, mouse-over activated item names, etc? I'm particularly interested in Goblins 3, but if anyone can tell me where the dialogue is hiding in other two games, that would be great, too.

I used the ScummVM datafiles information to do some swapping between two langiage versions, hoping this trial and error approach would help me - it didn't.

[DrMcCoy]

I have another Goblins related question: Which file contains all the written dialogue, mouse-over activated item names, etc?

One file containing every human-readable string in the game? There's no such thing.

In Gob2 and beyond, every script file (.TOT), constituting one "room", has one string file for each supported language: .DAT for French, .ANG for British English, .USA for American English, .ALL for German, .ITA for Italian, etc..
In Gob2 type games, but not Gob3 and beyond, there's also a .CAT file with the item combination texts.

In Gob1, all texts are literal string expressions in the TOT files.

The format of each string is also not that straight-forward, since they contain excessive formating information: Look at Draw_v1::printTotText() and Draw_v2::printTotText() (for Gob1 and Gob2+, respectively).

[OmerMor]

How about recording all the midi-music from the diskette version as digital audio and using it as a replacement to the cd music? It's like the recorded amiga soundtrack replacement for MI1-CD.

Is that possible?

[DrMcCoy]

How about recording all the midi-music from the diskette version as digital audio and using it as a replacement to the cd music?

Yes, that's a possibility. I consider that to be quite icky, though.

Also, it's a lot of work:
1) You need to go through the whole an record everything
2) You need to note where what was played
3) You need to cut all recordings together to produce one big audio file
4) You need to adjust the index file ("mus_gob3.lic" for Gob3, which is basically a big table of track names, their offset into the big audio file and length

To help you with this, you can run ScummVM with "-d1 --debugflags=Sound", which should give you a line for every CD track played on the console with its name.
Play through the whole game, note what track is played on every screen.
Then, play through the floppy version, record every music file and name it according to the track names of the CD version.

And of course, after you did all this, you aren't allowed to distribute the audio file either.

[Strangerke]

And more important :
0) You have to possess both version ! (rule #0)

[Morden]

One file containing every human-readable string in the game? There's no such thing.

In other words, there's no way of changing the language of the game by replacing a file or files? Well, that sucks.

I recently bought Gobliiins 4, and as a bonus, it included first three games which are handled via ScummVM. It's a MULTI3 edition [Czech, Polish, Hungarian]. First three games have been translated, so they no longer include English nor French translations.

They're all European CD versions. I own various CD and disk versions of all Goblins games and there are notable differences between them [like the music, which we already talked about]. Since the games never did include an option of choosing a language, I wanted to see if a simple file swap would do the trick. Here are the lists of files I played around with:

- > Goblins 3 EU CD Polish
- > Goblins Quest 3 US CD English

I've noticed that the MULTI3 version includes DEGOB3.ITK, FRGOB3.ITK and USGOB3.ITK. I can only assume that these are German, French and US English files, which contain translated data in Czech, Polish and Hungarian. For some reason, they just didn't bother with changing the original file names.

When installing Gobliiins 4, you are asked which of the three languages you'd like to use. I'm assuming that depending on this choice, a proper file is placed in the game directory to handle the data from one of the ITK files, as this file handles only one language at the time.

My theory was this: Assuming you choose Polish during the installation, and that the corresponding language file is USGOB3.ITK, replacing it with the same file from Goblins Quest 3 CD would either work or crash the game.

[DrMcCoy]

In other words, there's no way of changing the language of the game by replacing a file or files? Well, that sucks.

It is possible, by (for example) replacing all .ANG files in INTRO.STK (.STK and .ITK are archive files). Replacing stuff from a CD version with stuff from a floppy version would fail in most cases though, since resource IDs are often a bit different there.

Since the games never did include an option of choosing a language

The multi-lanuaged versions also let you choose the language. If not by a setup, then by either changing how LOADER.EXE is called or by changing a line in MDO.DEF. The "LG_" strings are important there: LG_US is American English, for example.

I wanted to see if a simple file swap would do the trick

Simply swapping the archive files will fail in most cases. You'd need to replace files in these archives.

I've noticed that the MULTI3 version includes DEGOB3.ITK, FRGOB3.ITK and USGOB3.ITK

These only contain the IMD video files of Blount's closeup bubbles, no text.

data in Czech, Polish and Hungarian. For some reason, they just didn't bother with changing the original file names.

Because the original executable doesn't know these three languages.

I'm assuming that depending on this choice, a proper file is placed in the game directory to handle the data from one of the ITK files, as this file handles only one language at the time.

No. The engine is already aware of localization. It does understand when a different language is chosen and does open the correct ITK file (and uses the correct text string files in INTRO.STK).
It doesn't know Czech, Polish and Hungarian, though, so these files "claim" they're German, French and American English.

So, the game is called to use German, so it opens DEGOB3.ITK and uses the .ANG files in INTRO.STK. In this case, these are actually Czech, the engine still thinks it's running German. No file replacement needed.

[Morden]

It is possible, by (for example) replacing all .ANG files in INTRO.STK (.STK and .ITK are archive files). Replacing stuff from a CD version with stuff from a floppy version would fail in most cases though, since resource IDs are often a bit different there.

How does one go about unpacking those? And how can they be packed again?

By the way, I replaced the original INTRO.STK from the MULTI3 version with the one from my Goblins Quest 3 CD and now it's all in english. I didn't pay too much attention to this file before because of its name and size. I thought it's just a logo anim or something.

It does however contain all the dialog and menu information in plain text. I'm not sure if the whole game is playable but the first stage seems to work just fine. Sierra file is 133kb while the original MULTI3 file is 619kb. Seems to work, though.

[DrMcCoy]

How does one go about unpacking those? And how can they be packed again?

Well, we've got two tools in the SVN repo for that, extract_gob_stk and compress_gob. You can either download the tools modules yourself, or, if you're running Windows, get the tools daily build from the homepage.

By the way, I replaced the original INTRO.STK from the MULTI3 version with the one from my Goblins Quest 3 CD and now it's all in english. I didn't pay too much attention to this file before because of its name and size. I thought it's just a logo anim or something.

INTRO.STK also contains the English texts, yes. I can't guarantee that such a mixed up version works to the end, though!

[Morden]

Well, we've got two tools in the SVN repo for that, extract_gob_stk and compress_gob. You can either download the tools modules yourself, or, if you're running Windows, get the tools daily build from the homepage.

Great. I'll give these tools a go and I'll poke around a bit. It's always fun exploring Goblins in one way or another.

INTRO.STK also contains the English texts, yes. I can't guarantee that such a mixed up version works to the end, though!

The weird thing is, original MULTI3 INTRO.STK was so much bigger, because it contained all three translations [Czech, Polish and Hungarian]. I opened it up in a hex editor and I could see plain text in all of those languages. Sierra's INTRO.STK is all English, so I'm actually surprised it worked at all.

I might just play through some levels, just to see if or when it will crash. So far, everything I clicked on worked, including the menus.

Anyway, thanks for your help! I'll remember to stop by next time I have some more Goblins related questions. Hope you don't mind.

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Update - I tested the tool [from the latest SVN package] and it doesn't seem to work with INTRO.STK files that can be found in the MULTI3 compilation. It DOES handle original Coktel and Sierra files, though.

Does the support for these files have to be implemented before they can be unpacked? When I run the command, it gives me:

Extracting: "AJRON"
ERROR: Unexpected EOF!

If you, or anyone else wants to check this out, I'll provide the files needed. The game runs fine via ScummVM and replacing INTRO.STK in Goblins 3 with the Sierra one [which does extract fine] didn't seem to affect the game aside from changing the language, so obviously the game itself can handle these non-extractable files fine.