The Lost Files of Sherlock Holmes - support?

[garrythefish]

No statement is objective, like it or not;)

I agree perfectly. But we can at least try

As for the totalitarian bit, I had the "look like a duck - walk like a ducks" allegory in my head, so i had some presumptions. The edit I've made in last post was to fix some typos, but you were very quick.

Cheers

[Longcat]

[Nikioko]

We are discussing recent political interpretation of history, a comparing it to the one in game that isn't even supported in scummvm.

Well, a game that isn't supported YET. Why isn't the game supported? Because it transports political messages that are controversial to our modern politics? No, the game is just not supported YET, but there is a chance that it will be in future.

And the discussion is not just about comparing recent interpretation of history to those when it was current politics. The discussion is also about whether making this difference is correct and the interpretation in the game suits the public opinion by that time.

The topic is far too interesting to argue about. I got books with time witness reports of the crusades and the Thirty Years War. Much of the reception by that time would be interesting today. Another example: I have an encyclopedia of 1872, in which Los Angeles is described als a town in California, inhabitants 2300. San Francisco by that time had more than 100000 inhabitants.

And that is what's so interesting in the game: you get political comments that could have been made by people that lived by that time. The question was if that was a historical authentic public opinion. I liked to talk to Mrs. Ratchett in that game. That is how I though an internationalist would be like in London. They were chased and prosecuted all over Europe. Britain was the only place of free speech for them and so London was the right spot to meet socialists by that time.
The game spreads an interesting atmosphere of another epoch of history - the question was and is: is it an authentic atmosphere or is it just pseudo-authentic which works only because we don't know it better. And finally, that determines whether it is a good or a great game.

[garrythefish]

Well, a game that isn't supported YET. Why isn't the game supported? Because it transports political messages that are controversial to our modern politics? No, the game is just not supported YET, but there is a chance that it will be in future.

A CNN trick for the public of low concentration, ha-ha. You're a likable fellow. Instead of using tricks and rethorical shortcuts be sure of the things you promote. Don't see why are you adding up apples and pears, and I would prefer if you don't mix the order of action and reaction. Simply, don't be silly.

I agree with you with lots of the bits, but don't see how it's connected to my quote and what do you prove by this (without making myself, baseless assumption, that is). It isn't supported yet and that's a reason EVEN less to let political discussion be the main topic, as it's even less related to the project than an actual supported game.

And the discussion is not just about comparing recent interpretation of history to those when it was current politics. The discussion is also about whether making this difference is correct and the interpretation in the game suits the public opinion by that time.

Doesn't make much difference in terms of politicality. Where there's a hundred people, there's a hundred cases. Generalization is quite damaging to a historian. E.g. "Public view" is a sloppy term, many people get a way with it these days. Even the weaselly public media has different views on a micro event, especially in the past, not to mention thoughts on a whole period or longer crisis, and the same thing interpreted later on by many many historians, uh, you get a whole chaotic universe of views. And because of that active political forces use that for their ideology to present history as it suits them, and every faction has more or less an agreement on historical interpretative propaganda, and even that's only on some key points and that is messy.

You mentioned the historical sources you read, that's indeed interesting. But one should have in mind that the sources might have a great degree of bias because propaganda, all sorts of ignorance, limited scope of view that influenced the source, and your own bias, from the historian e.g. of not knowing the context of the era enough and every case in history is unique when giving them consideration. Sources are helpful indeed, but if you know how to use them and if you don't take things for sure and for granted, as they are just traces of history.

Who is to choose what is right and what is wrong when dealing with the unknown what is forever lost through time? I say let the individual decide. Well, in reality, some sort of authority and that's where politics step in, and certain individuals tailor it for their purposes. They choose the sources they want, make presumptions facts, they even make stories and fables out of it etc. all sorts of fabrication happen.

Either facts that everyone agrees on (or near it), or we are talking about ideas and spreading those same ideas becomes an ideology, and we surely have politics. Its hard to expect the prior, so rule #14 can be considered is indeed broken, especially if it's the main subject of converse of a game isn't privileged project-specific in any way (yet), and such discussion should take place in a different forum, on history or silk stockings

[MeddlingMonk]

Should I feel guilty about sparking a minor row? Or have at least two other people overreacted to this subject?

My own small contribution is: There is no historical issue which is not in some way controversial and which does not contribute to modern politics and I think there's the potential of overreacting if it were to be suggested that rule 14 bans all discussion of the historical content of games on the off chance it may lead to something political. (Of course, no one has suggested going that far, but I detect a hint of movement in that direction.) There should, I think, be so suggestion of a problem unless a problem actually emerges. And only the moderators should be the judge of that.

End of sermon.

[garrythefish]

Quite right, MeddlingMonk.

Let's rather discuss the possibility of the game being supported in ScummVM, that would be much nicer.

[Nikioko]

You mentioned the historical sources you read, that's indeed interesting. But one should have in mind that the sources might have a great degree of bias because propaganda, all sorts of ignorance, limited scope of view that influenced the source, and your own bias, from the historian e.g. of not knowing the context of the era enough and every case in history is unique when giving them consideration.

True. But the question is still: is the bias (or, as I would prefer, pov) presented in the game an authentic one or is it just made up by people who live a long time later? The answer to the question is important for the quality of the game. The question never was whether you second or oppose the opinion presented, especially from your modern eyes. The question is whether the presented opinion is authentic for that time or not. E. g. I didn't know that Birmarck had such a bad reputation in England by that time though I know he had in France.

Let's rather discuss the possibility of the game being supported in ScummVM, that would be much nicer.

Well, I would apreciate that, as I told you, because in my opinion it is the best Holmes adventure (apart from Lost Files 1). It really catches the atmosphere of the late Victorian age. And it is a 2D point and click adventure and therefore in scope of ScummVM. If I was a bit more talented, like all the nice people developing this virtual machine, I would add support myself.

[mattn]

sorry for bumping such an old thread - but i just wanted to post the link to the file format description in case anybody will ever work on support for these great games: http://wiki.xentax.com/index.php/The_Lo ... el_Toolset

there are also tools (written in pascal) to extract and show the data stuff (no script info though)

[Nikioko]

Is there any news about this?

[Nikioko]

I got a new machine and noticed that both games are still running under DOSBox. But I am still hoping for a ScummVM support one day.