Quick question about Win KQ6 mouse pointers

[envisaged0ne]

Was wondering if there were any plans to use the original mouse icons for the Win version of KQ6. As it is now, it uses the DOS icons for the mouse pointer. The win version used smaller icons and were white. Which I personally kinda preferred.

[md5]

Right now, we have no plans to support the Windows cursors. They were inferior, ugly and way too small, which is, IMHO, a step back. Why support something that's more plain and uglier?

Though that could change, I suppose (after all, it's a personal opinion). Please file a feature request in the tracker

[Mataku]

Why support something that's more plain and uglier?

well, then i guess you should remove all support for AGI games aswell

[clone2727]

Right now, we have no plans to support the Windows cursors. They were inferior, ugly and way too small, which is, IMHO, a step back. Why support something that's more plain and uglier?

Though that could change, I suppose (after all, it's a personal opinion). Please file a feature request in the tracker

It is a personal opinion. Just like the personal opinion that the undithering mode is better.

[md5]

Why support something that's more plain and uglier?

well, then i guess you should remove all support for AGI games aswell

As I said it's a personal opinion. For the same game, the Windows cursors look uglier and more plain than the DOS ones. Don't compare SCI with AGI, it's like comparing apples and oranges

[Bluddy]

As far as I can tell, the Sierra Windows cursors were a result of the era: games were just beginning to be ported to Windows and getting the cursors to change colors would have been difficult to do if not impossible, so they did what little they could. It's funny that there's now a request for those cursors, but I guess if that's the version you grew up with, that's what you think of as the proper version.

[MusicallyInspired]

It is a personal opinion. Just like the personal opinion that the undithering mode is better.

QFT

I freaking hate undithering mode. It ruins many of the backgrounds.

[LordHoto]

It is a personal opinion. Just like the personal opinion that the undithering mode is better. :)

QFT

I freaking hate undithering mode. It ruins many of the backgrounds.

You are hopefully aware that you can disable it then? ;-) (i.e. "sci_undither=false" in your config file, either in the scummvm section or in all the game specific sections)

[MusicallyInspired]

Yes, I am aware. Before I thought the only way to do it was either to input the command in the console every time you load an SCI0 game, or to compile your own build which disables it. I still don't think it should be the default setting any more than 2xsaisupereagle or whatever should be the default scaler for LucasArts games. Any aesthetic changes made to "improve" the game should be left to the decision of the user in my opinion.

[Bluddy]

Really Musically, you hate undithering mode? I think it's beautiful. This was discussed elsewhere on the forums, but in my opinion it takes the SCI0 art (which isn't that great) and raises it to a new level (near-VGA quality). I find it a great pleasure to view the old SCI0 backgrounds with it, especially for games that struggled with a lot of dithering (Camelot, SQ3, Colonel's Bequest).

[MusicallyInspired]

My problem is that by omitting the necessary checkered order of pixels which hide things artistically like lines that become an element of shading by depending on the dithered look, it destroys the original intended work in the first place. With undithered mode active this effect is lost and you get all these bizarre jagged lines everywhere that make no sense and look out of place. Not to mention that I think the advantage of having 256 colours in the first place (or more than 16, anyway) is for shading and gradual changes. Undithered mode just makes a bunch of flat colours while dithered mode (while crude) actually looks like shading in a lot of ways because of its small palette and unique approach to fooling the eye. Really, undither doesn't add all that much to a picture anyway because it just makes it look flat. It actually detracts from it because it takes an artistic expression and turns it into this flat and boring image with bizarre jagged lines in random areas of the screen which were meant to be for shading and other artistic nuances.

Also, half the time there are sprites on the screen which can't be undithered and are dithered specifically for the purpose of blending in with the background. These previously invisible sprites that look like a part of the world are now glaringly obvious and throw the player right out of the game (at least it does to me).

I'm all for an undithered feature or any other options to improve (or in this case, completely alter) the look of games in ScummVM. I just believe that it should be left to the user whether to decide or not they want to enable them. Games supported by ScummVM should be presented the way they were originally intended to be experienced and not "enhanced" by default. It's great if people like it. Awesome. Just don't make it the default. Again, nothing like this is done to SCUMM games or any other engine in ScummVM's compatibility list and shouldn't be to SCI0 either. Granted it's not really possible in the same way with other engines, but I guarantee you that if you did there'd be a similar outcry from fans of those games if a feature like undither was implemented and activated by default to "enhance" the original experience. These games are played out of nostalgia. Don't muck with it unnecessarily.

That was longer than I intended but I believe represents the stance of a lot of Sierra adventure fans out there who disapprove of the feature.

[Collector]

I still don't think it should be the default setting any more than 2xsaisupereagle or whatever should be the default scaler for LucasArts games. Any aesthetic changes made to "improve" the game should be left to the decision of the user in my opinion.

I agree wholeheartedly. Some may dislike the dithering, but the blending does not render the same color value that dithering seems to. It is like colorizing old black and white movies. It is making aesthetic/artistic changes that were not what was originally intended. Some may like it and it is good that the option is available for them, but the default should be unadulterated.

[Bluddy]

Well put. I disagree with you - I love the feature myself - but I respect your opinion in the matter.

I personally think dithering works when you have a high enough resolution such as 640x400 where the eye can't make out the details, but looks rather ugly on 320x200.

I emailed the original artist on many of the Sierra games and he said they were really trying to push the envelope when using that dithering technique. The goal, as he put it, was to produce more visible colors, not stylistic technique. They couldn't imagine getting more real colors back then, but I think had they been able to, they would have used more colors rather than using dithering.

I agree that the undithering implementation isn't perfect in scummvm, but in my opinion it comes pretty close, and I think most people enjoy it. I also personally wouldn't mind having it applied to other EGA games in other engines (or even to VGA games).

[Flo]

Would have, could have, should have.

IMO, ScummVM should, by default, represent games the way they did originally appear, not try to guess what they might have looked like had the circumstances been different.

[m_kiewitz]

IMO, ScummVM should, by default, represent games the way they did originally appear, not try to guess what they might have looked like had the circumstances been different.

For the backgrounds, we actually dont guess at all. We just use the color, that the artist really wanted to use. In fact, "undithering" is actually just no additional dithering step.