Possibly unanswerable question

MeddlingMonk · Post by **MeddlingMonk** » Sun May 10, 2009 8:36 pm

There are a few pieces of dialog in GF's data that never are used in the game. I'm mostly thinking of the roughly four minutes of conversation between Domino and Manny on the factory island. Assuming the scripting for that dialog tree was only disabled or bypassed or whatever, as opposed to ripped from the code entirely, would there be any chances--however remote--of actually 'restoring' it? Would that even be desirable?

ezekiel000 · Post by **ezekiel000** » Sun May 10, 2009 10:26 pm

Does the dialogue make sense in the final game? Or does it reference stuff that was cut?

MeddlingMonk · Post by **MeddlingMonk** » Mon May 11, 2009 2:23 am

It does make sense. But I think the reason it was cut (along with a short exchange between Manny and Salvador in year one) was because it spells things out (meaning how the ticket scam works) in detail and I suspect that in the end the GF team decided that players were smart enough to figure things out for themselves. And, anyway, Manny pretty much sums it all up in the greenhouse cutscene.

So, even if it's possible to restore the cut stuff, I have to wonder if it's even something that should be done because it would change the feel of how the plot unfolds. On the other hand, it's very strange that you can't talk to Domino at all.

If you haven't heard the cut dialog, just follow this link and you'll find it all at the bottom of the page. Full disclosure: the custard one actually can be heard in the game but I hadn't figured that out when I sent these into the Grim Fandango Network years back (use Domino's mouthpiece on the fill-a-dent and show it to Eva without biting it first).

ezekiel000 · Post by **ezekiel000** » Mon May 11, 2009 7:19 am

Maybe then they had planned to do two levels of difficulty like CMI.

Longcat · Post by **Longcat** » Mon May 11, 2009 2:56 pm

no, the conversation was actually cut because it had severe bugs in it, it is actually possible to see it if you dont patch the game before playing it methinks, so I guess it should be possible to implement in residual.

MeddlingMonk · Post by **MeddlingMonk** » Mon May 11, 2009 5:39 pm

No, no. The cut dialog was cut. Your bug theory doesn't hold water: it is not possible to hear the cut dialog if you haven't applied the patch. Believe me. I doubt there's anyone who's played GF more often (outside the playtesters) than I have, and the only reason anyone knows about the cut dialog is because I found it by using Scumm Revisted. (Of course, any bozo could have done that, except I happened to have done it before anyone else had.)

ezekiel000 · Post by **ezekiel000** » Mon May 11, 2009 7:28 pm

I was going to say I've never used the patch and I've never heard any of that. What was the patch for?

Longcat · Post by **Longcat** » Mon May 11, 2009 8:27 pm

MeddlingMonk wrote:No, no. The cut dialog was cut. Your bug theory doesn't hold water: it is not possible to hear the cut dialog if you haven't applied the patch. Believe me. I doubt there's anyone who's played GF more often (outside the playtesters) than I have, and the only reason anyone knows about the cut dialog is because I found it by using Scumm Revisted. (Of course, any bozo could have done that, except I happened to have done it before anyone else had.)

well, obviously, it IS possible, since this guy managed to do it, record it and put it on youtube:P Mr. Superman.

http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=194390

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMQcy5qt-5g

Longcat · Post by **Longcat** » Mon May 11, 2009 8:43 pm

Ezekiel000 wrote:I was going to say I've never used the patch and I've never heard any of that. What was the patch for?

A patch for Grim Fandango was released shortly after the game's initial release, providing a remedy to a few problems which affect the game. It is highly recommended that you download and install the patch before playing the game, as it does the following:
Solves a problem which can occur when copying the CD's .lab files across to the hard-drive.
Prevents various lockups caused by certain events throughout the game.
Slows down a certain puzzle during the game which goes too fast for completion on processors higher than 400mhz.
Adds ability to display text during cutscenes.

ezekiel000 · Post by **ezekiel000** » Tue May 12, 2009 12:03 am

Ah right I only ever installed the patch when I played the game again a few years after I originally completed it, and didn't notice anything different.

Was it the lift puzzle that was fixed?

Longcat · Post by **Longcat** » Tue May 12, 2009 5:01 am

Ezekiel000 wrote: Was it the lift puzzle that was fixed?

Yes, I believe so.

MeddlingMonk · Post by **MeddlingMonk** » Wed May 13, 2009 10:49 pm

Longcat wrote:well, obviously, it IS possible, since this guy managed to do it, record it and put it on youtube

I wasn't aware of this video. In the past some have claimed it was possible but always it was about someone else no one could ever pin a name on.

It's interesting that in the comments the guy basically says that it just happened. He didn't do anything special. And I think he's right when he speculates that the patch was included in his copy so we still have to discard the suggestion that the patch removes access to it (and not only because this dialog was essentially inaccessible before the patch).

There are some bugs in the game that are very, very rare. Like the vanishing inventory bug. But what about this situation? That there is a bug that makes it very, very rare for this conversation to work as intended? An odd sort of bug. Of course it's possible for a bug to keep something from working except sometimes, but I don't think that's the case here. Such an obvious problem would have been easily spotted. Time pressures might have prevented it from being fixed before release, but why not in the patch? Blatent bugs are usually fixed (Ultima IX notwithstanding

).

On the other hand, it's still possible that the conversation was meant to be cut but there's a bug which will very rarely kick in and the conversation just works as originally intended. That seems a little more likely. Very rare bugs are often not fixed, especially if they're so rare they may not even manifest themselves in any reasonable timeframe. Again, this is the first time someone has proved this can happen...ten years after the game was released! Now that's the kind of bug I can easily believe in.

But this is all sort of academic, except that it proves that not only is the audio available in the game, so is the actual scripting for the dialog tree. Which probably means someone who knows what they're doing can look at it and implement it in ResidualVM. So that, by a roundabout way, answers part of my original question: it appears to be technically doable.

Should it be done? If it's an (unlikely) bug that prevents the dialog from nearly always being heard, then I'd definitely say do it. If it's the more likely inverse bug, I don't know. If they did want to take it out, should that be respected? I know I incorporated this into the novel, but I think ResidualVM is a different case. The basic idea here is to reproduce the game, not interpret it for a different medium.

On the other hand, why not just do it no matter what? What do the devs think?

Robot_Maker20 · Post by **Robot_Maker20** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:52 pm

I've also been able to go through the whole Domino-Manny conversation on the island, just playing normally, with no bugs; this was on an early release of the game that I borrowed and no longer have access to, unfortunately. I later bought my own copy, but it doesn't work in that one. I would hypothesise either that it's possible in the unpatched game but disabled (accidentally or deliberately) by the patch, or that there are actually different data files on early release discs that aren't affected by the patch at all.

I think it really should be enabled/reenabled, if possible, since it's important for the plot, enjoyably well written dialogue to boot, and most of the details in it aren't actually the same as the ones revealed towards the endgame. Even if it wasn't actually meant to be in any release, perhaps an option could be placed in the ResidualVM controls to play the game with the additional dialogue included as an unofficial "extended cut." I'm pretty sure it was intended to be in the released game, though - there's nothing else to do in that whole room otherwise (apart from the tiny hammer gag), and why else would they even give you the ability to go in there?

JoeNotCharles · Post by **JoeNotCharles** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:57 am

I know I'm a little late - I just stumbled on this thread through a Google search. I thought it was well-known that the conversation with Domino on the island was disabled due to a bug: if you speak with Domino in his office in Day 1, you can't speak to him on the island.