Loom: EGA vs. VGA Script Differences

[OmerMor]

I wanted to make the file available for comments or suggestions before I go further but I'm not sure how to share it. Just hosting the file somewhere (an .ods spreadsheet) might be too inconvenient for others, but I'm not sure.

What's wrong with Google Sheets? You can give "Commenter" access to "Anyone with the link".

[Fronzel]

What's wrong with Google Sheets? You can give "Commenter" access to "Anyone with the link".

I suppose so. I try to avoid google when I can.

I read some non-specific complaints about the VGA version lacking some alternate puzzle solutions from the EGA. Does anyone know if this is true? The only puzzle with multiple solutions I know of is escaping the dragon's cave and the two slightly-different solutions I know of are present in the VGA.

[Fronzel]

OK, I've put my current progress up on a google sheet here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Anyone can comment with this link. Please feel free to post any questions or comments on the sheet or in this thread.

Is my way of annotating what actions yield what lines good? The way I denote locations?

[eriktorbjorn]

The only puzzle with multiple solutions I know of is escaping the dragon's cave and the two slightly-different solutions I know of are present in the VGA.

There are two different drafts you can use to damage the blacksmith's sword, but that's true in both versions as well. I can't think of anything else at the moment.

[Praetorian]

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What's wrong with Gooe][gle Sheets? You can give "Commenter" access to "Anyone with the link".

I suppose so. I try to avoid google when I can.

I read some non-specific complaints about the VGA version lacking some alternate puzzle solutions from the EGA. Does anyone know if this is true? The only puzzle with multiple solutions I know of is escaping the dragon's cave and the two slightly-different solutions I know of are present in the VGA.

I can't recall puzzle differences, but I've played the VGA less times and it's been a long while since I played through that to the end. I do seem to remember something about the "conundrum", the chalice at the glassmakers (in the EGA you can fill it and get some additional text flavor there). I am unsure if this was in the VGA too. Same with trying to heal Goodmold near the end -- I remember it changed, but not quite sure I remember how much. But these are more "optional" stuff, rather than alternative solutions.

Puzzles with "alternative" solutions that I recall are:
- How you deal with the dragon at her lair after you use Reverse Straw into Gold on her stash: "Fear" or "Sleep".
- Using Open on the pool in the caverns instead of Empty. (edit: apparently this is not correct, I am misremembering here).
- Not actually having to use "Wake" spell for Rusty to wake-up. He will wake up by the noise anyway.
- Twisting/Un-sharpening the sword at Blacksmiths.

The alternative solutions pretty much involve spells that can be missed (and the game can still progress). These essentially are Empty, Sharpen and Sleep.

[Fronzel]

I'm very close to being finished but I'm wondering if I'm getting a display anomaly in ScummVM with the VGA version. In the sheet provided by OmerMor some lines have a coding (/025) on either side of some lines that appears to do nothing. The EGA version has differnt coding onm the same lines (+ and /) (e.g. "Loom" is + Loom / in the EGA and /025 Loom /025 in the VGA). In ScummVM these lines have quotation marks ("Loom") in the EGA but nothing in the VGA. Is this some kind of error? Should the lines in the VGA also have quotes?

[eriktorbjorn]

Should the lines in the VGA also have quotes?

I guess the simplest way to check would be to run the game in DOSBox. Is there any early example of this?

[Fronzel]

I guess the simplest way to check would be to run the game in DOSBox. Is there any early example of this?

Yes; after reading the grave in the Weavers' cemetery (after getting rid of the owl) Bobbin repeats the last line. It displayed like this when I was playing the two versions with ScummVM:

The day the sky is opened.

“The day the sky is opened.”

[eriktorbjorn]

[

The day the sky is opened.

“The day the sky is opened.”

DOSBox printed the text without quotation marks in the VGA version, just like ScummVM does.

[Fronzel]

DOSBox printed the text without quotation marks in the VGA version, just like ScummVM does.

Strange. Now I'm wondering if there was an error in the production of the game. Why would the quotes be deleted compared to the EGA and why would there be this /025 code if it does nothing? But it doesn't matter for my purposes; if this is an error in the game I should reproduce it as it is, like the several typos I've come across.

Thanks for checking this.

[Fronzel]

I believe I'm finished. I've updated the google sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I proofread it once but feel free to mention anything which might make it better. I should make the .ods file available as well somehow.

There are a number of subtractions from the VGA compared to the EGA as well as fewer additions, but the most wide-ranging change is in Bobbin's personality; in the original EGA he’s sardonic and spunky in a low-key way while he’s hapless and easily flustered in the VGA.

Some smaller-scale differences that stood out to me:

The confrontation between the Weaver Elders and Hetchel is the biggest example of the VGA simply being shorter and lesser than the EGA. The VGA version loses the character of a judicial trial with a prosecution, a defense (or at least a less hostile figure) and a judge between them. The EGA also makes clear that Hetchel is being punished for teaching Bobbin weaving while in the VGA it’s not clear this is what is meant by “secrets”. This risks making the player expect further revelations later which do not come.

The shepherds are much more hostile and aggressive in the VGA version; they have a lot of fun at Bobbin’s expense rather than just refusing to let him pass. This sense of antagonism could increase the satisfaction when Bobbin gets past them with what amounts to a prank although it could raise the question of why Bobbin should want to help them as he does shortly afterwards if they’re a bunch of jerks except for their leader.

Speaking of Fleece, her dialogue is cut down in the VGA which unfortunately removes the mildly comical misunderstanding where she mistakes Bobbin for a wizard she hired; instead she seems to open up to a stranger about her Guild’s problems for no particular reason which is pretty strange and also does not follow up on the comment from the guards about her having hired a wizard.

In the EGA the Glassmakers have a mercantile bent to them; Goodmold finds a reason to mention the catalog of goods they have for sale, Crucible says “the customer is always right” in response to Mandible complaining, and Flute and Stopper have distinctly different diction and manners when they talk among themselves compared to when they’re talking to Bobbin (an outsider/potential customer). The only thing that survives in the VGA is Goodmold quipping “you break it, you buy it”. This doesn't just reduce the personality of the Guild, it minimizes the reason they're dealing with a shady character like Mandible. Flute and Stopper talk about Crucible being a money-grubber but the entire Guild seems angled that way in the EGA.

One touch I did like in the VGA version of this part was that the graphics are able to depict the glass buildings as being translucent and it has Bobbin segue into asking about the swans by mentioning they have a good view of the sky (even indoors).

In the EGA Bobbin realizes something is up when his magical disguise disapears and that it means it's possible that something happened to Rusty. He seems to forget about this until he sees Rusty's corpse later which could make him seem a bit cold. The VGA removes this which is arguably an improvement.

In a huge and possibly accidental change, in the VGA it seems as if Mandible needs Bobbin's distaff to unleash the spirits of the dead while in the EGA he mentions "other methods" he had been planning to use before Bobbin showed up. That seems like a handwave but almost every group of people Bobbin encounters uses some kind of magic so I suppose it's believable. Regardless, the VGA version appears to make Bobbin indirectly responsible for the disaster that befalls the world at the end. You could argue this is interesting (especially in the possibility for sequels which unfortunately never happened) but it creates a serious contradiction; Mandible had been making preparations for his army before Bobbin showed up. Why would he do that if to suceed he needed something he only gained by chance?

Bobbin cuts a more heroic figure in the VGA during the final sequence, promising to return to fight Chaos. He's more passive in the EGA, following his mother's lead whose future intentions are unclear.

[Muyfa666]

This is a really nice project. Would it be possible to make a playable fan patch for the FMT-version (for example) that combines the best of all worlds text-wise?

I really don't need full speech for this game (as it's simply too limited), but text and graphics patching (fixing slight blood censoring and some inferior models) would make the FMT-version the perfect final version IMO.