Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade: Explain this mistery to me

[tecate]

Ok. So I play Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (16 color EGA version) on Scummvm, right? I make it to the library, I arrive to the screen with the roman numerals and the stained glass window, and Indy says: "Dad searched for roman numberals everywhere!", then I open (or look at) the grial diary and I see what the real window is supposed to look like so I can find the one that looks exactly the same. Up to here, all normal.

Now, the same game on Dosbox... when I say the same game, I mean the same files in the same directory in the same computer, but now using Dosbox. I make it to the library, I arrive to the screen with the roman numerals and the window, but this time Indy says nothing. If I try to open the grial diary, Indy says "It's my father's grail diary!", but doesn't open it. If I try to look at the grial diary, he says "It's a package from my father!", and again, he doesn't open it making the game unwinable (unless you break every single slab and you save/load the game every time until you find the one slab out of the 50 or so slabs).

It's not two different versions of the game, it's the same files, in the same directory of the same computer, but played on Scummvm or Dosbox. Anyone else has had this happen? What king of sorcery is this?

[Praetorian]

Ok. So I play Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (16 color EGA version) on Scummvm, right? I make it to the library, I arrive to the screen with the roman numerals and the stained glass window, and Indy says: "Dad searched for roman numberals everywhere!", then I open (or look at) the grial diary and I see what the real window is supposed to look like so I can find the one that looks exactly the same. Up to here, all normal.

Now, the same game on Dosbox... when I say the same game, I mean the same files in the same directory in the same computer, but now using Dosbox. I make it to the library, I arrive to the screen with the roman numerals and the window, but this time Indy says nothing. If I try to open the grial diary, Indy says "It's my father's grail diary!", but doesn't open it. If I try to look at the grial diary, he says "It's a package from my father!", and again, he doesn't open it making the game unwinable (unless you break every single slab and you save/load the game every time until you find the one slab out of the 50 or so slabs).

It's not two different versions of the game, it's the same files, in the same directory of the same computer, but played on Scummvm or Dosbox. Anyone else has had this happen? What king of sorcery is this?

I cannot reproduce this playing the EGA version with DosBox. Is your EGA copy of the game an original one?

Do you have the save game from the DosBox playthrough so we can test and try to reproduce the issue on our side?

You could also test with the DREAMM emulator which maybe takes care of specific configuration quirks required to run the game properly.

As far as I can tell, Indiana Jones is supposed to say these lines ""It's a package from my father" and "It's my father's grail diary" when the diary is still packaged and appears as "package" in your inventory. The first line is when you "LOOK" at the package and the second is when you "OPEN" the package.

After the "package" is opened, it will be gone from your inventory list and a "Grail Diary" will appear in it. OPEN and LOOK at the Grail Diary should produce other cues (more often "I don't see anything pertinent right now", except if you are on certain screens like the stained window rooms where it would give you the clue/solution).

Maybe a developer more familiar with the SCUMM (the implementation for ScummVM) engine could provide more insight on this and whether there is indeed some obscure original bug that ScummVM fixes.

[tecate]

I cannot reproduce this playing the EGA version with DosBox. Is your EGA copy of the game an original one?

This is a cracked game. I have all original Lucas Arts graphic adventures with their boxes, manuals, etc. But for simplicity and to not damage the original manuals, I downloaded a cracked version (easier than going through my 5.25" floppies).

Do you have the save game from the DosBox playthrough so we can test and try to reproduce the issue on our side?

Sure. I don't know if I can attach files here. So here's a link to file.io: https://file.io/Or8veOvVeUBQ It's a zip file with the savegame files.

As far as I can tell, Indiana Jones is supposed to say these lines ""It's a package from my father" and "It's my father's grail diary" when the diary is still packaged and appears as "package" in your inventory. The first line is when you "LOOK" at the package and the second is when you "OPEN" the package.

After the "package" is opened, it will be gone from your inventory list and a "Grail Diary" will appear in it. OPEN and LOOK at the Grail Diary should produce other cues (more often "I don't see anything pertinent right now", except if you are on certain screens like the stained window rooms where it would give you the clue/solution).

Yes, that's what happens with ScummVM.

Maybe a developer more familiar with the SCUMM (the implementation for ScummVM) engine could provide more insight on this and whether there is indeed some obscure original bug that ScummVM fixes.

First, I thought it was the piracy protection (and that this copy was not cracked). However, I remember that, in the non-cracked version, when you failed to enter the right code, Indy said you were playing the demo version, and when Donovan asked Indy to translate the slate, Indy messed up. Donovan said Indy was not the person he was looking for after all, and the traveling to Venice was never an option.

By the way, I just realised another thing. In the original game, the one I bought, when you used the metal pole to break a slab, a nazi appeared and then Indy jumped into the hole. If you broke into the wrong slab, you had no other option than climbing back to the library where the nazi killed you. That was game over. In the version I'm playing, the nazi kicks you out of the library and shuts the door. But you can open the door and go back inside.

[eriktorbjorn]

First, I thought it was the piracy protection (and that this copy was not cracked). However, I remember that, in the non-cracked version, when you failed to enter the right code, Indy said you were playing the demo version, and when Donovan asked Indy to translate the slate, Indy messed up. Donovan said Indy was not the person he was looking for after all, and the traveling to Venice was never an option.

I don't have the EGA version, but that's how the Mac version behaves as well:

Indy: It's something about Holy Grain - perhaps some special wheat the priests ate?
Donovan: I'm sorry, Dr. Jones. Evidently you're not the right man for the job after all.
Donovan: Perhaps you're just an illegitimate copy of the man I thought you were.

One of my favorite jokes in the game, and it's not even in the version being sold nowadays.

By the way, I just realised another thing. In the original game, the one I bought, when you used the metal pole to break a slab, a nazi appeared and then Indy jumped into the hole. If you broke into the wrong slab, you had no other option than climbing back to the library where the nazi killed you. That was game over. In the version I'm playing, the nazi kicks you out of the library and shuts the door. But you can open the door and go back inside.

When I tried that a while back, the game would only kill me if you failed too many times. The first few times I just got kicked out, as you describe.

[Praetorian]

Sure. I don't know if I can attach files here. So here's a link to file.io: https://file.io/Or8veOvVeUBQ It's a zip file with the savegame files.

With this saved game file, loaded from the original EGA version (running via DosBox), it does indeed show "Grail Diary" in the inventory and the game treats it as "package". However, at least with the original EGA version you can use "OPEN" and then "LOOK" on the bugged Grail Diary and it will then work as intended. So the original version can recover from this bug and ScummVM prevents it altogether, which is not very surprising to me.

[tecate]

However, at least with the original EGA version you can use "OPEN" and then "LOOK" on the bugged Grail Diary and it will then work as intended.

This won't work for me. I'm curious to know if this is a Dosbox problem or if this is a bugged version of the game and the bug would persist even when running native MSDOS.

[tecate]

When I tried that a while back, the game would only kill me if you failed too many times. The first few times I just got kicked out, as you describe.

I'm pretty sure the nazi killed you on your first failed attempt in the original one, but, now, you make me doubt...

[tecate]

I found a thread on steamcommunity.com which has someone with the same issue. People replying to the thread don't seem to understand what's happening and they are all like "Oh! Have you tried opening the package?" or "Oh! Perhaps you are looking the grail diary in a room where there's nothing pertinent?". I relate to the poor guy...

Thread: https://steamcommunity.com/app/32310/di ... 007074780/

[Praetorian]

If the issue is that a cracked copy of the game is not working properly, then it's not a bug, it's a tampered version of the game.

As a rule, we don't discuss nor provide support for pirated versions of games.

Unless I am mistaken, you are still testing with a cracked copy, and that Steam forum thread refers to the EGA version as well, not the version that Steam sells, so chances are they are using a cracked copy too. So, there's no mystery really that it has issues.

[LogicDeLuxe]

not the version that Steam sells

Most likely that. The thread starter has no mouse icon, which means, he didn't bought the game on Steam.

[tecate]

As a rule, we don't discuss nor provide support for pirated versions of games.

I wasn't seeking help with a pirated version of the game. As I said, I have the original version, and I'll use that. I was using a pirated version because I didn't want to constantly put my oily fingers on my original manual with the codes. I was just curious about why the error happened. I wanted to know if it was a legitimate bug, a result of cracking the game, an alternate version, or whatnot. I thought this was the appropriate forum as long as I didn't ask for help cracking the game or using a pirated version. And while on the subject, I'm still curious about the nazi killing you in the library on the first failed attempt to enter the catacombs versus killing you after a few failed attempts.

[eriktorbjorn]

And while on the subject, I'm still curious about the nazi killing you in the library on the first failed attempt to enter the catacombs versus killing you after a few failed attempts.

I don't know about the EGA version, but the 16 color Mac version and the 256 color PC version both behave the same way:

Every time the guard catches you, a variable is increased. Depending on its value, he will say "You're coming with me!", "This is your LAST chance!", or "All right, you've had it!". Here is how that part of the script looks when run through the "descumm" tool (i.e. this is not what the original programming looked like, but it's useful for debugging):

Code: Select all

[0035] (46) Var[132]++;
[0038] (48) if (Var[132] == 1) {
[003F] (14)   print(11,[Text("You're coming with me!")]);
[0059] (48) } else if (Var[132] == 2) {
[0063] (14)   print(11,[Text("This is your LAST chance!")]);
[0080] (48) } else if (Var[132] == 3) {
[008A] (14)   print(11,[Text("All right, you've had it!")]);
[00A7] (18)   /* goto 00AA; */
[00AA] (**) }

When he spots you, the game will also look at that variable and have the guard either say "What was that noise?" or "Not again!", before saying "You there! Don't move!":

Code: Select all

[013B] (6D) putActorInRoom(11,VAR_ROOM);
[013F] (01) putActor(11,0,120);
[0145] (11) animateCostume(11,249);
[0148] (A8) if (Var[132]) {
[014D] (14)   print(11,[Text("Not again!")]);
[015B] (18) } else {
[015E] (14)   print(11,[Text("What was that noise?")]);
[0176] (**) }
[0176] (80) breakHere();
[0177] (1E) walkActorTo(11,38,116);
[017D] (AE) WaitForActor(11);
[0180] (AE) WaitForMessage();
[0182] (14) print(11,[Text("You there!  Don't move!")]);

If you get caught a third time the game ends. Not in death, as I first thought, but in jail:

Code: Select all

[0189] (48) } else if (Local[0] == 1) {
[0193] (14)   print(254,[Center(),Pos(Var[254],40),Text("After paying for damages to the library floor,")]);
[01CB] (14)   print(254,[Center(),Pos(Var[254],50),Text("Indiana enjoyed five years of jailhouse pasta")]);
[0202] (14)   print(254,[Center(),Pos(Var[254],60),Text("while his father withered away in a Nazi prison.")]);
[023C] (48) } else if (Local[0] == 2) {

[tecate]

The cracked version I was playing is the IBM PC 16 color EGA, and they quick me out of the library. But I swear, in the original version I own [*], they killed me on my first failed attempt. I might be wrong since I haven't played that particular version in over 30 years... Is it possible that there are two versions? They made a first version where there was a chance for you to die on every corner, then they realize their game was too much like Sierra games, and they decided to make it a little bit more difficult for you to die? I might be wrong... But when I was little, I didn't know how to interpret the hints on the grail diary, so I had to destroy every slab in the library until I found the entrance to the catacombs, and I had to save and load my game every time I failed because of the nazi killing me every time.

[*] I own both the IBM PC 16 color EGA, and the IBM PC 256 color VGA. But the one I played the most as a kid is the former.

[invwar]

I got these Versions of Indy 3 confirmed existing. The game was released, to my information between May and July 1989? So I expect at least one more version available. The most common Internet versions seems to be the version 1.3.

1.3 14th August 1989 Original EGA version launched on either six 5.25" or three 3.5" low density floppy disks.
1.4 19th October 1989 EGA version.
1.5 29th December 1989 EGA version.

Would be interesting to know the timestamp of your version.

[tecate]

Would be interesting to know the timestamp of your version.

Ver 1.0, 7/09/89

By the way, is there any difference between the 5.25" and the 3.5" versions? Like, how does the game know what disk to ask when it says "insert disk whatever"? If one version is six disks and the other one is three disks, how does the game know the file it needs is in disk six versus three (assuming the file is in the last disk)?