Telltale Games + King's Quest

[maximus]

http://wireless.ign.com/articles/115/1150953p1.html
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/3312 ... Sequel.php

Not many details yet (gotta wait for E3 apparently), but it looks like Telltale is going to be bringing King Graham back into the spotlight .

Here's hoping it's better than Mask of Eternity ...

[MusicallyInspired]

I'm not optimistic. But we'll see. This is a dangerous combination. Ex-LucasArts employees and a Sierra license.

[clone2727]

I'm not optimistic. But we'll see. This is a dangerous combination. Ex-LucasArts employees and a Sierra license.

I'm optimistic: there's no Roberta so it might be good.

[tsoliman]

I'm optimistic: there's no dying or getting stuck so it might be good.

fixed that for you

[clone2727]

I'm optimistic: there's no dying or getting stuck so it might be good.

fixed that for you

Oh, no. I meant exactly what I said.

[MusicallyInspired]

I didn't mind Roberta's puzzles. And I like the possibility of getting stuck and dying. It makes the game dangerous, causing you to think harder and protect yourself and your decisions, rather than letting the game protect you and lead you everywhere you want to go.

But I'm a classic Sierra fan so what do I know....Telltale's model is obviously the superior format.

[bobdevis]

I never liked it when a game allows you to save when you are in an unwinnable situation. It's just bad design IMHO, just as much as a grfx editor that would allow you to save corrupted images.

Anyway, its nice to see that TTG is thriving.

[clone2727]

And I like the possibility of getting stuck and dying.

I don't mind dying. It's the endless "screw the user" deaths that have no place in a game. I make one fatal mistake when moving with the keyboard in KQ4 and I fall off the cliff. It's ridiculous. How am I supposed to see where the edge of the cliff is with all those small pixels? I'd imagine it's even more likely in the AGI version of the game.

Getting stuck should never happen in a game. How do you know you're stuck. What if you eat that pie in KQ5? How would ever know that you have to use it to hit the yeti yet alone not eat it before getting there? It's just terrible game design.

If you lose, you lose. You just don't let the player run around headless not knowing they didn't pick up an item in the first five minutes of the game that they need to save their life five minutes from the end of the game.

[MusicallyInspired]

To me, a dead end is your own fault. True, there are few instances when it's not really obvious that you missed something and saving in that state is a bad thing, but I like the idea of being thrown into a dangerous world where anything can happen and you have only your wits to get you through it. I like the game not holding your hand through it all. Makes you think harder.

Of course, this is the reaction I expect from a forum of mainly LucasArts fans.

[clone2727]

To me, a dead end is your own fault. True, there are few instances when it's not really obvious that you missed something and saving in that state is a bad thing, but I like the idea of being thrown into a dangerous world where anything can happen and you have only your wits to get you through it. I like the game not holding your hand through it all. Makes you think harder.

No, a dead end is never the user's fault. Not being able to get in a bad state is not the user's fault. Either kill the player off or don't let them get stuck.

Again, my question: How do you notify that the player is stuck? For if they are not notified nor killed off, the user has no idea what they are doing in the game any longer.

It's the most simplest form of poor game design: getting into an unwinnable situation.

[tsoliman]

To me, a dead end is my own fault.

That's obviously what you meant right? I say this beause the rest of your post makes it clear that this is how you rationalize it.

I am a sierra fan also and yet I will call out bad design when I see it. I will recognize it when someone calls it out.

I cannot recall the exact games but there were games where you forgot to pick up something and moved on and now it is too late to pick it up. I'm talking about hours later you find out that one way to get unstuck might be to restore.
This is before the age of the internet and gamefaqs and where hintbooks were expensive and basically ruined the game.
I think the Les Manley games did this but I am sure there were quite a few sierra games that did this.

I didn't even realize it was bad design and lived with it (because I was 8 back then) but now I design software so I know better.

When I find a game that I haven't played (the VGA remake of Hero's quest from the collection) I am trying hard to make myself play it and convince myself it is fun.
It isn't. Not today.
Back then yes. Not with what I know now.

Having said that, I was completely fine with replaying Space Quest 4 (from the collection) because I played it all before without speech.
I know all the gotchas (e.g. don't forget the slime) and so I enjoy it. I enjoy the speech and the nostalgia.

[eriktorbjorn]

I always figured that the frequent getting killed/stuck in early Sierra games was an heritage from the text adventures of the time. Back then, it was perfectly natural an healthy for a game to screw up your progress at the slightest provocation. If you took too long, you might run out of food or your lamp could run out of power. An object you left behind or used up earlier might turn out to be essential later in the game.

This can be fine for a text game (if it's not done too much) where the game speed is usually limited only by your typing speed. In a graphical game, it can take so much longer to replay from an earlier saved game. And even in text games, it was usually considered bad form to kill the player arbitrarily or randomly. (I'm looking at you, Space Quest 1 slot machine!)

[MusicallyInspired]

No, a dead end is never the user's fault. Not being able to get in a bad state is not the user's fault. Either kill the player off or don't let them get stuck.

Again, my question: How do you notify that the player is stuck? For if they are not notified nor killed off, the user has no idea what they are doing in the game any longer.

It's the most simplest form of poor game design: getting into an unwinnable situation.

I just don't share your or others' opinions that the games don't offer enough hints as to why you're stuck. I will admit there are some unwinnable scenarios that weren't intentional, but not all of them. And the ones that are intentional usually end in death and with that comes a death message with a hint as to what you're missing.

To me, a dead end is my own fault.

That's obviously what you meant right? I say this beause the rest of your post makes it clear that this is how you rationalize it.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Perhaps I should have said it that way to not sound so accusatory or snotty.

Everyone has their tastes. That's simply my view.

[tsoliman]

I just don't share your or others' opinions that the games don't offer enough hints as to why you're stuck.

I wonder what is the hint provided for the 2 examples given.

1 - KQ5 pie
2 - Space Quest 4 slime

[MusicallyInspired]

I said I admit there are some instances where dead ends were unintentional and therefore, logically, no hints were provided. But what about the SQ4 slime? You can always go back to the sewer and get it anytime you need to. Just hop back inside the ship and go down through the grate in the streets again.